The Bregman Leadership Podcast
Episode 182

Robert Glazer

Elevate

About

Website: Robertglazer.com
Book: Elevate
Bio: Bob Glazer is the founder and CEO of global performance marketing agency, Acceleration Partners. He is also the co-founder and Chairman of BrandCycle. A serial entrepreneur, Bob has a passion for helping individuals and organizations build their capacity to outperform.

Transcript

This transcript is unedited.

Peter: We’re here today with Bob Glazer. He has written a terrific little book called Elevate, push beyond your limits and unlock success in yourself and others. Bob’s the founder and CEO of global performance marketing agency acceleration partners. And the book is specifically created to be a quick read and also has a lot of gems in it. So I’m really excited to have this conversation with Bob today. Bob, welcome to the Bregman leadership podcast.

Robert: Thanks for having me, Peter.

Peter: So Bob, what is capacity building? That’s the point of this bark is to increase our capacity. And I find myself always saying to people, you know, I want, I want us to increase our capacity to, to act in the world, to be powerful, to have deep conversations. What does capacity building mean?

Robert: I’ll give you the, the deeper definition and then a simple one. So I think the complex definition is the method by which individuals seek, acquire and develop the skills and ability to perform at a higher level in pursuit of their innate potential. The simple formula I like to say, or the simple definition is it’s how you get better. And you know, we’ve, we’ve found ourselves talking about as our business grew and leadership and talking about our bench strength and teams, we found ourselves using that term a lot. Like, you know, P does Peter have the capacity to take on the next level, the next responsibility? And we found ourselves focused on that a lot. And then trying to think about how we could build capacity holistically in people. We’ve, we’ve averaged about 30% growth for 10 years and, and it, you know, would that kind of change in the organization? You constantly need people to to step up and and do new things.

Peter: What’s the difference between capacity and potential? You hear a lot about high potential and high. What’s the difference between those two?

Robert: I, I, I think one’s the sort of end in one’s the means, right? I, I, when you talk about people’s potential, I, I think there, it can be very loaded. What I look about at potential is it has to be, and this gets into spiritual capacity and we’ll go into, it has to be applied to what’s most important to you. I don’t think a lot of us reach our potential doing something that we really don’t want to do or that doesn’t fulfill us. So we reach our highest potential when we’re clear about what we want and then we get really excited about raising our game to get it there. In fact, I think there are a lot of people out there who really haven’t focused on or have low spiritual capacity who are, who are really it and we call them successful, which I think is, you know, and they’re, but they’re just not happy. There’s no enjoyment in what they’re doing, but they’re doing a really good job at it. So that, that’s where I think, I think potential is the difference between, you know, simply like what we could do and what we’re doing. A lot of times we need to align the sort of why and the where we’re going to really want to elevate into that, into that potential.

Peter: Right. Yeah, that sounds right. I actually, I don’t, I don’t know that I’ve ever met anyone who didn’t have high potential. So for me, that term of potential misses the boat, it kind of says, you know, yeah. Like if you think that someone’s hypotensial, like what are you saying about everybody else? That they’re low potential, you know, that they don’t have the capacity to grow and develop beyond where they are right now that they, you know, and, and and I think we don’t really talk about that, but it’s implicit as soon as we sort of talk about, you know, what different people’s potentials are.

Robert: Yeah. And I think when we talk about someone who’s crushing it, Oh, this person is doing amazingly well. And I can’t compete with them or they have some advantage. I think we say that because it feels better about ourselves to not acknowledge that rather than some advantage over they have of us. They are really fulfilling their potential and we, it’s just, it’s easier to believe they have some, some cheat sheet than to say, I’m not doing everything that I could do.

Peter: Yeah. And I think in that way it, it speaks to people’s oftentimes frustration that they may not be in the right situation and they may not be doing the right things, but really what it’s related to is they feel like they have more to give and more to contribute and more to play. And yet somehow they’re not getting there somehow. You know, they’re leaving a lot of stuff on the table.

Robert: Yeah. And you know, I wrote an article recently and it had a lot of interesting comments around creating an alternative path for great individual contributors in an organization. So there’s a great example when we were talking about some people don’t have capacity for leader or you’d say, look, they don’t have a, Peter doesn’t have a great capacity for leadership, but like Peter doesn’t want to lead. Peter wants to be a great doer, right? He wants to go sell more, build more products, all that stuff. So as you said before, I’m not, I’m not your, I might see that your capacity, I might feel your capacity for leadership is low, but I, but I shouldn’t have pushed you to lead a team. If you have zero interest in leading a team and you don’t like leading a team, right? You, you might just like selling more or engineering more or delivering more you know, trans turning into a leadership role, it’s pretty much undoing everything that’s made you a good individual contributor today. Right, right,

Peter: Right. I think that’s 100% right. And I like to make this distinction, you know, between like potential and interest and passion, right? Because I ultimately like I’ve coached enough people to know that, you know, w with the right framework and focus and like anybody has the potential to lead. Like I really believe that. Like I don’t think there’s anybody who doesn’t have the potential for leadership and you might have to, you know, I’m, a lot of my work is around emotional courage and you might have to feel things you don’t want to feel in order to lead effectively. You might have to give up and let go of things in order to lead effectively. But there’s nobody who doesn’t have the potential to lead. I mean I just, I’ve coached enough people to know that, but there’s a lot of people, to your point, who don’t want to lead and, and who feel pushed into leadership because that’s the only way to rise in an organization. So your point about really celebrating individual contributors and talent. I was coaching someone recently where they really want to lead but constantly do things that get in the way of their own leadership and really where they shine is as being talent, like really being an individual contributor. But they don’t necessarily want to do what it will take to lead, but they don’t want to necessarily give up the leadership role. And that is the worst of all possible.

Robert: Yeah. Right, right. That’s co consciously incompetent. Right. And yeah,

Peter: Right. It’s consciously incompetent. Right.

Robert: But usually the, the the right, the danger is in consciously and competent, but usually that’s the point where if you want it bad enough, you’re willing to work through it. Like if you, if you just want to be anointed, then I would probably argue they actually don’t want it. There’s something about the title or the status of that. Probably think that they want, but they probably don’t. Yeah.

Peter: Or they are unconsciously competent. Meaning they think they’re better at, you know, they’re getting a lot of feedback saying they’re not very good at it, but they, but they don’t believe that feedback because they think the problem is everybody else. And they’re actually really great leaders. But if you’re a great leader, it’s unconsciously competent. Yeah. And, and, and also if you, if everybody’s complaining about your leadership, no matter what you think about your leadership, you have problems in your leadership, right?

Robert: Yeah. We actually just rolled out a manager effectiveness score in our organization cause we said, look, the number one job of a manager is to be a good manager. So everyone on their team thinks they’re a bleep manager. Like we got a problem and we need to know that. Right?

Peter: Right. A friend of mine sort of likes to say if, if one per, I mean he’s the CEO of a company, and this is going to sound a little harsh, but he said,

Robert: I know the analogy,

Peter: Right? Like if one person on a team is complaining about the leader, then we fire that person. If everybody is complaining about the leader, then we fire the leader, right?

Robert: There’s the equivalent if, if you meet an a-hole at 10:00 AM in the morning and they’re probably in a hole, if you meet a hose all day, your probably right.

Peter: Yeah. Right. Yeah. That’s the same kind of thing. All right. So you, you opened with and started talking about spiritual capacity, which I absolutely love because it’s not something that we’ve talked about in organizations. It’s critical to, to all of our lives. You talk about it as understanding who you are and what you want most and the standards you want to live by each day. And, and I love this Warren. Ben, his quote, the become, becoming a leader is synonymous with becoming yourself is precisely that simple. And it’s also that difficult.

Robert: Yeah. So it’s not religious. But it was the best term I could encompass it. I, I believe strongly that everyone should be able to articulate their core values. I think that your personal core, and then actually you could pretty much see whether you’re aligned to the organization that you’re at. If their core values are, are true. But I think we have them, we feel them, we feel good when we’re living in alignment with them. We as a leader, when we cross them, we feel bad. The difference with some people as they can articulate, Oh, here’s why. And other people, they just, they know that they’ve crossed that that boundary. So we work with our leaders on developing their own personal core values, being able to put them on their desk, being able to communicate to their team. And we just had some really interesting breakthrough was when people realize you know, what is most important with them and being able to communicate that to their team. I don’t think you can be an authentic leader if you’re not clear about your core values and can articulate that to the people who work for you.

Peter: So let me challenge you with two things around values. One is one of the things that I’ve often seen is that people have like, you know, 10 values and, and the problem with the challenge of values is not that any of those 10 values are wrong, but the problem is that some of those values come into conflict with each other. And when they come into conflict with each other, the choice you make is your actual value. And that’s the other challenge, which is that people have aspirational values versus their actual value. We are all every day. And this is the same question I have around purpose. We’re living out of our purpose and out of our values every day. But they may not be there,

Robert: But 98% of us don’t know know it. We’re bouncing off the wall, we’re bouncing off the wall and no one painted the lanes for us. Right?

Peter: Yeah. And, and I also think they’re not necessarily the values we would choose or, you know, if we were conscious or intentional about it or the purpose we would choose. But it just happens to be that like, you know, that comes out of our culture and our upbringing and like the quest, you know, we never ask questions about it. And I like, what I wonder about is when someone chooses a value that is discordant with the values they grew up with, you know, let’s say, let’s say the value I grew up with is, you know, I’m competitive and I, and I, I, I want to make as much money as I possibly can. And the value I chooses, I want to be sort of generous and connected to others. And and, and give a lot of money away. So there’s this value I grew up in and then there’s this value, you know, it’s sort of like my, the, the, my current value versus my aspirational value. How do you help people move through that?

Robert: I don’t, I, I, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll, it’s a great question. I’ll disagree with some of it. I agree with you that they’re not aspirational values. Just like in a company you don’t say, what do we want to be? You say, what is the DNA of our best people? Like I think companies grew up core values cause they’re trying to make them in a marketing slogans and to me they’re the DNA of your best people and that you could sit down and have a conversation around that value with them and say you’re doing well at it or, or you’re not doing well. So I think that for most people it is a process of discovery. And as I’ve done this with a lot of business leaders, they realize that a lot of these values run deep to childhood or to formative where they are trying to run with something or against something.

Robert: But I actually think it is their purpose. And so you know the example I give and and sometimes people struggle like with, with not wanting to own that because they feel like they’re blaming someone else versus just owning it. I worked with a leader recently who realized that self-awareness was critical to them. It was like potent to that because they had a parent that really embarrassed them as a child type of person who was never self-aware, walked into him, didn’t read the room and they, and they lived with that their whole childhood. And what they realized was as a leader in the organization, when they had people who showed signs of lack of self awareness, they would sort of disproportionately come down on them and they had really kind of struggled in those situations. After going through this process, they were actually able to go back, articulate that, recognize that in themselves, tell, tell that to the team and change and really improve the relationships.

Robert: So I actually find most a lot of people’s core values come from a place of, of, of, of pain because whatever that thing was, whatever I’m overcompensating for him from my kid, they’re going to be at, you know, 30 overcompensating for it. I think that’s fine. I think you just need to acknowledge that and realize that that is really, really important to you and it’s driving you. And, and a lot of the times, one of the ways in my process of discovering your core value is when you know you’ve got it right is when you picture the antithesis of the core value as a person and, and, and you’re sitting at a party talking to that person. So if I have a value around gratitude and you are, you are a trust fund entitled baby Peter. And we meet at a, at a party and we were talking and you’re like, Oh, I’m so upset.

Robert: I can only go on for Vic. And I just like, I want to like, you know, explode. You know that you usually, that’s a good sign that you’re sort of, you know, directly in, in, in conflict with where this person’s value. Now if you don’t know that, you’ll kind of go off you know, you just walk away or blow up. If you know what you’re like, Oh, now you know what, this is what’s happening right now. This is why I’m getting physically sort of, you know, upset about this rolling. You actually then have the ability to, to manage it better once you can understand it and be aware of it.

Peter: Let’s talk about intellect, intellectual capability. You talk about it as improving your ability to think, learn, plan, execute with discipline. And again, a quote that I love that you have in the book, John Foster Dulles, the measure of success is not whether you have a tough problem to deal with, but whether it’s the same problem you had last year. So, you know, I love that. And so many of us actually really do have the same problems we had last year. Is that really an intellectual capacity issue?

Robert: I mean, yes and no. So to me intellectual capacity is your operating system and I think people often think about doing more, but if you take a computer and you update its processor, you know it processes the tasks easier and with less energy. So if I, if I it, I do think if you’re making the mistake over and over again, so one that crosses over a lot for people is difficult conversations, right? Really like gets into emotional capacity. People struggle with difficult conversations. There’s some incredible material out there by people like Kim Scott, Patty McCord, you know, podcasts, you can listen to Bush and you can read that. You can update your software for having difficult conversations and when you do that a couple of times, suddenly you will have less stress, less energy and otherwise, if difficult conversations is a core part of your job and you haven’t gotten any better at it in two years, then you know you’re not really moving forward. So I see intellectual capacity is once you know what you want, how you improve, and just get better at locking in on, on getting it. And that’s why I do think we’re better at growing on intellectual capacity when we’re clear about what we want and what we want to accomplish.

Peter: You talk about not being reactive, which I agree 100%. That’s like a critical piece and know talking about difficult conversations. That’s a critical piece. My question is, is that an intellectual capacity issue or an emotional capacity issue? When I’m, when I’m reactive or I watch people reactive, it feels like it’s coming more of an out of an amygdala than a neocortex, like out of a an emotional responsive place than an intellectual one.

Robert: So that one is both, because I think, you know, your ability to have the tools in emotional capacity that you need to improve at it sort of come from improving your toolbox. So I, you know, having been through a lot of coaching and training and like, you know, how I would react to difficult feedback 10 years ago, it’s physiologically different now, right? I’ve, I’ve taught myself, I’ve trained myself and I’ve gone through like it’s a feedback loop, right? So I’ve gone through the process of intellectual capacity to learn how to say thank you for the feedback, repeated all that stuff. If you probably measured my blood pressure and other things. Right now they are totally different than seven or eight years ago. So I do think you, you upgrade your, your, your, your system. Look the first couple of times you do it, you’re like, I know the right thing to do even though it doesn’t feel good. But then you go through a couple of cycles and suddenly like that’s your new operating system

Peter: And what do we do in, you know, this, the difference between knowing that I should do it versus actually doing it, right? Like how do I, like I could reorganize my operating system conceptually, but in the heat of the moment, you know, how do I actually follow through on that?

Robert: I think you just have, you got to practice, right? I think it is, it is. One of the things I say that with, with, if you think about spirit, a race car, so spiritual capacity is sort of designing the race car intellectual is building it physical, it’s kind of testing it out on the track, but then you got to put it on a track with cars going 200 miles an hour and suddenly like that car and may do a lot worse or a lot better depending on how you reacted to things around you. So I, I don’t think there’s a substitute for, for practice in this case and, and practicing, you know, difficult conversations and the things that you don’t want to do. I mean, even mentally you can go through the preparation of here’s what it’s going to be, here’s what’s my, you know, the Stoics used to like, you know, one of the things they talked about was just, you know, eulogies in their head of everyone they knew, like, you know, just mentally preparing for that process that when they faced it, it is not something that they’re processing

Peter: For the first time. Let’s get this tip out of Warren Buffett’s advice on the top 25 career goals. Cause I really liked that.

Robert: Yeah. As it’s a great story. There, there’s the beta, whether it’s urban legend or not, but we’ll go with it because it’s still serves the purpose. But Warren buffet was talking to his pilot about his goals and he said make a list of your top 25 goals. And, and he did that and he said, okay, come back and tell me the five that you really want most. And they, and, and he did that to his, they talked about that. And he said, all right, well you’re gonna focus on this five. He said, yeah, I’m going to focus on these five and I’ll give less attention, you know, to the other 20. And buffet said none. And I’m like, you don’t get it. Like you don’t even look at that top 20, that top 20, that other 20 lists will actually get in the way of you getting those top five goals done. So the, the, the, the, the learning there is like figuring out what you want most, reduce the distractions, get the stuff you want done most and that the other stuff will actually detract you from what you [inaudible].

Peter: And the way I’ve heard it also, which is a little different is, and then you look at the top five and you take and you choose the top one of those and the bottom four you assiduously avoid meaning, you know, until you get one done. Like you actually, they go on your not to do list because you can’t even really get five things done.

Robert: Yeah, there’s a lot of, there’s, there’s a lot of, and I agree with you on not having too many quarterbacks for most people, I think three, four or five is perfect and they don’t help you as a decision maker if you can’t remember what they are, you have to go. So when companies brag about their core values and the person pulls the thing out of their pocket on the, and I’m like they don’t know the core values. If they have to pull the thing out of the pocket. Like our core values of our company or own it, embrace relationships in Excel or improve. You hear it every day. You hear people say that’s not owning it. We should embrace relationships. Like if they had to pull it off of an index card, then it isn’t really internalized. Right,

Peter: Right. That’s great. Talk about physical capacity.

Robert: Yeah. I mean we only have one car to get through life for one vehicle. And if you, if, if you don’t maintain it and you put shitty fuel in it then it’s not, it’s not going to do very well. So, you know, we understand. I think, you know, think about, you know, how you are feeling, you know, what, what your sleep stress just your physical capacity. When you, when you’re exhausted and you show up to work, you know, you, you have, this affects everything, right? Intellectual capacity. It’s harder to learn. It’s harder to pay attention if you’re really stressed out, you’re more irritable with people. I think your physical capacity, you know, acts as an accelerant or a drag on, on all of the other capacities. And most of us, you know, wait until something really breaks. We don’t do the preventative maintenance. You know, one of the things about stress, my friend dr Heidi Hanna, who was sort of a world expert in stress talks about is that we, you know, we’re using fight or flight mechanism all day long these days. It’s not what’s designed to resolve in our system. It’s, we’re using it and we, you know, we’re supposed to save our life and we’re kind of using it all the time now. And it’s not, it’s making us sick and it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, reducing our physical capacity.

Peter: I want to challenge your assertion in the book that one man’s medicine is another man’s poison in terms of diet. And, and I am curious because you may have done more research on this than I have, but I think we know for example, that there’s sort of zero downside to reducing the amount of meat that we eat and zero downside to eating lots of more fruits and vegetables. And if like there’s certain things that we know and I think, you know, we sort of tend to stay away from that. Now you might disagree me you might say actually I think it’s much better to eat a ton of meat and no fruits and vegetables but, but it’s, I’m not telling everybody to go vegan, but I think like we know some things about about it and I, and, and I’m curious why not advocate for that or are you may disagree?

Robert: I think it’s a hybrid look clearly like tons of refined sugar is not good for us. I just, I said it in the context of all the various diets going around. I just interviewed with Ben Greenfield who sort of reaffirmed, this is one of the top fitness gurus in the world. People, you know, we come from different geographical areas. We’ve moved faster than our biology has kept up. So there are definitely certain people, systems that react differently. And I just, I say that because people go on a diet, they put it all over Instagram, they encourage everyone else to do it. They get very in their face around it. And really one die for one person may be the opposite of something that someone wants to do. Like there are a lot of people doing keto diets right now and some people react really well. Some people have a dangerous cholesterol reaction to to a keto diet that sort of threatens their health.

Robert: Right. So I just, I agree with you. There’s some things that have universal applicability, but like let’s say you’re like really low iron or you’re not naturally anemic, then you probably being a vegan may cause more harm in that case in the good, I’m grossly generalizing here, but that was more of the context of what I, what I’ve seen is that when people jump on a fad, they make everyone believe our new thing that everyone has to do this. And there’s a lot of tests these days to really determine like where you have issues, what you react to, what you might be allergic to, and you may double the damage by following something that’s not meant for your body.

Peter: Let’s jump into emotional capacity. You talk about the importance of changing our limiting beliefs. Yeah. How [inaudible]

Robert: This is a great exercise. Look, I think a lot of these things came from our childhood things people said to us and inadvertently, I, you know, sometimes I have to be really careful. I remember the things that my, I might say as a joke to my kids and they sort of remember and there’ll be in therapy on, you know, 30 beyond my dad told me, you know, I couldn’t do that. But yeah, I, I, I think one of the things, there’s a great exercise of like, of actually writing something down. So when you say, like you say, like someone says, Hey, one-on-one, run a triathlon. Well, why can’t I run a triathlon? He said, I couldn’t do that. Well, why? And you list the reasons out and you keep saying the why until you get four or five of them and then you keep answering like how you could mitigate that factor.

Robert: And, and I, I just think it’s easier to hide behind self limiting then to face the work that needs to be done. My, my, my parental fray is that I’ve accepted that I sort of adopted with my kids now, which I think really gets these two spectrums. There’s one spectrum of, you know, kind of destroying visions. I think some people say, Oh, you couldn’t do that. I mean, that’s the worst thing, you know, you can say. And then there’s this other spectrum of, Oh, you can be whatever you want to be and without any context to that, which I think is also a little disillusionment. So I like, you know, you can have anything you desire as you’re willing to do what’s required. So if one of my kids said to me, I want to be an astronaut, an Olympic athlete, I’d say, I believe that you can do that. Here’s what it takes and here’s what it looks like to be an Olympic athlete or an astronaut. Here’s how they practice. Here’s what you need to do. Here’s the, in the case of the grades you want to have. So I think that’s really important in terms of being, being realistic. But, but understanding that if you want something, it’s, it’s available to you.

Peter: You talk about having a positive attitude and the importance of resilience and that feels like a critical element to building your emotional capacity. How do you help people when they’re feeling negative shift to a positive attitude?

Robert: Yeah. I, the best tactic is to really get people to understand what they control and what they don’t control. So recently we had a leadership training for a bunch of our team and the facilitator said to everyone, this is one of their biggest takeaways from the day. He said, you know, if you control it, why worry about it? And if you don’t control it, why worry about it cause you don’t control it. Right. And, and, and if you control it, you worry about cause you control it. And I think that’s true. Oftentimes we overreact to whatever the thing was, certainly like there’s a car crash or something happens, but then we are actually fairly in control of what happens next and how we apply our energy. And I think it’s very liberating to take control of that and, and believe that, that, that, you know, we can change the, the outcome of the situation.

Robert: So I always say, I joke around like one of my barometers of, no, no pun intended, of, of emotional capacity days is the rain and the weather. Like, you know, these people who look at their app all day long, Oh my God, it’s going to rain tomorrow or whatever. I look at it just to know it’s going to rain. A mom maybe should go to the movies or like put on the raincoat. Like if you get that stressed about things that you don’t control and really focus on it all day long, it just really shifts your mindset into this sort of victimless passenger rather than a driver.

Peter: Yeah. There’s, you know, there’s there’s a lot of evidence that who you surround yourself with determines, you know, what you end up doing and what your experiences. So you know, if you want to eat well, but you’re constantly in a setting where people are eating, you know, ton of fried food, but then, then the cha, your chances go down quite a bit. And, and and there’s lots of research that’s been done around there. So what I’m curious about is how do you manage the dynamic of maybe having these new found values, right? I’m pulling all this together. So you’ve built your spiritual and your intellectual, your physical and your emotional capacity. You have values, you’re living of purpose, you’re, you know, kind of expanding your, your capacity to learn and you’re eating well and exercising. But you’re living in a context and an organization in a family and with friends who who don’t, who, who, who don’t do all of these things. And it’s very easy to draw back. Everyone around you is eating a pint of ice cream and you’re just sitting there not. So

Robert: If you don’t want to drink, don’t hang around with people who go to bar four nights.

Peter: Right? And yet, if your whole community is, are drinkers and they all go to bar and everybody’s drinking at dinner, how do you manage that dynamic?

Robert: Yeah, it’s not easy. And I, and I, and I say this in the book, when you, when you, when you’re starting to really lock in on your spiritual, intellectual and physical and you get that humming, you’re going to have some difficult decisions. So you’re going to have to choose in those cases between going back to the behaviors that you don’t like or want to do or probably changing your circumstance, changing your relationships, changing your geography if you really believe in those things a lot, changing how you interact with some people in your family. The one tool that’s been really helpful to me, and I, I had him on my podcast recently, a gentleman named Donda Pandey who sort of shared was when you talk about energy vampires are people that bring you down or to the activities that you don’t want. You sort of advocate for this approach of like, you don’t need a breakup.

Robert: You know, you don’t need to break up with a family. You need to break up with your friends. You just need a recap of energy. Like, so I’m going to stop making, Hey Peter, we should catch up. Like if I really don’t want to catch up, like I just don’t say that right. I don’t have to have a like blow throw down brawl with you. I just, I cut the frequency, I cut the following up and that’s been a really helpful tool to me to sort of just shift myself away from people in groups that I felt like I needed to make that shift from. But we moved into, it was just a neutral thing. It was, there was never a, there was never a,

Peter: You don’t have to have a, you don’t have to have a big conversation airing all of your differences or things like that.

Robert: No, and I think that that’s what people think and actually that makes, that’s more taxing on emotional capacity. Then again, he said this guy’s a Hindu priest and was a Buddhist monk and he says, I don’t ask people how they are. If I don’t want to know. He’s talking about, he’s talking about small talk. It’s like the people who I ask, how are you doing? And I get a 20 minute, you know, complaining about. They’re like, I just don’t ask them that anymore. It’s just a very simple tactic.

Peter: That’s really great. We’ve been talking with Bob Glazer. His newest book is elevate, push beyond your limits and unlock success in yourself and others. It’s an incredibly practical read and a lot of fun. Bob, thank you so much for being on the Bregman leadership podcast.

Robert: Thanks Peter.

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